Frederica Freyberg:
Our next guest also made a presentation at the conference. He's an invasive species expert with the UW Sea Grant program. He says these fish, the dreaded Asian carp, are one hard rainfall away from entering and wreaking havoc in Lake Michigan. The destructive carp have made their way north all the way to the top of the Des Plaines River in Chicago. The river runs parallel to the Chicago ship canal, flooding of these waters would provide the spillover needed for the fish to enter Lake Michigan. Phil Moy studies the carp and their effects on lakes in his research. Thank you very much for joining me.

Phil Moy:
Thank you.

Frederica Freyberg:
I understand a bill is pending in the U.S. Senate to build an emergency wall along this river in the event of flooding so these carp don't get around an electric fish barrier. How fast does Washington need to act on that?

Phil Moy:
Well, if we could predict the weather, it may not be until next year, but if we get a significant rainfall as we had last fall, it could be a matter of just weeks. That's pretty fast for Congress.

Frederica Freyberg:
Yes. And so when you look skyward and you see storm clouds, I mean, you're seriously concerned that the carp will move into the lake.

Phil Moy:
Absolutely. They are positioned at a point now above the electric barrier in a parallel waterway, the Des Plaines River. That river does flood frequently, not always over its banks into the ship canal. But if it does, these fish could go over that little strip of land and be in the canal upstream of the electric barrier. Then there would be very little in their way before they got into the lake.

Frederica Freyberg:
And what would they do once in the lake? What would they do to it?

Phil Moy:
Well, our concern is that because they are filter feeders, they feed on plankton. So they're feeding at the base of the food web or the food pyramid. They're going to be competing with our smallest life forms of the larval fish, the sport fish that rely on that sort of microscopic food as their first diet. So it could have adverse consequences for our commercial fisheries as well as our sport fishery.

Frederica Freyberg:
Describe these invaders. We've just seen some pictures. And they can be huge.

Phil Moy:
I think so far the largest that's been caught in the US is about 125 pounds. When they're that big, they don't tend to jump out of the water as they do when they're 12 or 15 pounds, but I'm sure you can relate to waterskiing or jet skiing or even motoring along in a boat and running into a 12-pound fish. They can really hurt you. They have a large head. Their eyes are positioned low on the sides of their head, a odd-looking fish.

Frederica Freyberg:
The thing we recall are these images of them leaping out of that water and hitting people. They're actually a menace in that way as well.

Phil Moy:
That's right. People have suffered broken bones and certainly damages to their boats and watercraft. So that's another reason that we don't want them interacting with us on the Great Lakes.

Frederica Freyberg:
We really want to keep them away. Where did they come from originally?

Phil Moy:
Well, Asia, China. They were brought over here for aqua culture, to improve water quality in ponds, kind of on an experimental basis for the Fish and Wildlife Service. Then they were introduced into private ponds to try to improve water quality for catfish farming.

Frederica Freyberg:
So they clean up the waters but not in a good way for our Great Lakes.

Phil Moy:
That's right. Now they're loose and in a natural environment, an uncontrolled environment, and their natural feeding tendencies are going to have an adverse impact.

Frederica Freyberg:
Will it be too late for the Great Lakes once they make their way there if they do?

Phil Moy:
It's very going to be very, very difficult if not impossible to eradicate them. We've seen the efforts associated with sea lamprey over 50 years, $16 to $19 million in expenditure every year just to keep their numbers in check. So far we don't have an Asian carp specific toxin, so we really need to keep them out rather than try and control them once they're there.

Frederica Freyberg:
All right. And may it not rain. Phil Moy, thanks very much.

Phil Moy:
Thank you.