Frederica Freyberg:
First, Mercury Marine union workers in Fond du Lac go into this Labor Day weekend counting votes that could determine their future. The third vote in the last two weeks ends tonight, a vote that will approve or reject worker concessions. Those include a wage freeze and 30 percent less pay for new hires and workers back from layoff. Workers will also pay more for their health care. What does the drama in Fond du Lac tell us about the status of organized labor in Wisconsin? We take that question to David Newby, the president of Wisconsin's AFL/CIO, and to the vice president of Wisconsin Manufacturers in Commerce, James Buchen. Welcome to both of you.

David Newby:
Glad to be here.

Frederica Freyberg:
As we speak, votes are still being tallied in Fond du Lac with that latest vote on the part of the union. But let's do begin with that Mercury Marine situation in Fond du Lac. First to you, David Newby. How would you grade the union's actions as this has progressed?

David Newby:
Well, the union has been in a no-win situation. They were presented by management with a take it or leave it contract. They have a contract in place that extends until 2012. The company came in with 140 changes. They said, ‘we've got to have these or else.’ There was, as I understand it, practically no real bargaining that went on. Employees are being told they have to have a seven-year wage freeze, as well as reductions in benefits for retirement and health care. At the same time, Mercury was essentially using the same kind of blackmail against both the state of Wisconsin and the state of Oklahoma, saying, ‘how much will you give us to stay in Oklahoma or to stay in Wisconsin?’ So taxpayers of Wisconsin or of Oklahoma are going to be essentially transferring millions and millions of dollars to this corporation.
 

Frederica Freyberg:
Now, James Buchen, it's just been described as blackmail. I guess I would call it hardball. But why so hardball? You know, take these concessions or we're out of here.

James Buchen:
Well, I think the sometimes painful reality is that Mercury Marine, like many other manufacturers, is locked in a desperate struggle to compete in an international marketplace, in their case against some well-heeled, much larger companies. It's really about survival. It's about staying in business. Nobody has a job if the company goes out of business. So the management must make the changes necessary to keep the company afloat, to keep its products competitive in the marketplace so people continue to buy them, so they continue to manufacture them here in America, and we can continue to have some manufacturing jobs here. And the situation is not unique to Mercury Marine. Companies across the state and across the country face similar pressures and, you know, have to do what they have to do to remain competitive or move the jobs offshore.

Frederica Freyberg:
David Newby, that's easy to understand, that in these times with sales slipping that they need to do something to stay afloat.          

David Newby:
Well, the point is, do you do it in cooperation with your workers or do you simply jam it down their throats? And in this case management said, ‘we're in control, this is the way it's going to be, take it or leave it.’ In a number of other instances, firms have worked with their unions, they've opened their books, they've been honest with regards to what the situation is and they've been able to work things out to everyone's satisfaction. And this has not been the case. It's been very unfortunate.

Frederica Freyberg:
So you don't think this represents a trend on the part of companies.

David Newby:
Well, certainly over the last 15, 20 years it has been the trend, that despite the fact that unions have been promoting labor management cooperation programs, despite the fact that they have been promoting additional skill training for their workers so they can be more productive, put out a higher-quality product, we simply don't see the degree of cooperation on management side that we'd seen 15, 20 years ago.

Frederica Freyberg:
How would you respond to that?

James Buchen:
I think we are all in this together. There's no question about it. We all need to see these companies succeed because this is where we get our livelihood from. An example is the fact that Mercury employs 1800 people directly, but there are thousands of jobs in the state that are reliant on this. All these companies are intertwined. We need them to stay here and prosper here. So we are in this together. We're fortunate in this state that we have a quality labor force. That's one of the pluses that we can offer people. You know, we've got a good system of training and retraining, and we're in better shape than most places in that area. But there is a trend here and the trend is we're losing manufacturing jobs. And since the year 2000 we've lost 25 percent of our manufacturing jobs in this state. While we remain the most manufacturing-intensive economy in the country, that's a trend we don't want to see continue. We've got to take the steps necessary to make Wisconsin an attractive place for manufacturing, turn something around here.

Frederica Freyberg:
Does it have anything to do with those manufacturing jobs being largely union jobs?

James Buchen:
Not necessarily. I mean, I think that kind of goes, you know, that differs. It depends on the workplace. You got to appreciate that 90 percent of the jobs in this state are not unionized, so most of what's going on does not involve a union one way or another. Some of the larger, older companies, they typically are unionized, but not necessarily.

Frederica Freyberg:
David Newby, do we need unions? If so, why?

David Newby:
You bet. Otherwise workers have no voice whatever. We're at the mercy of whatever management decides. I think we have to recognize, too, and James mentioned that we are now the number one state in terms of the percent of our workforce in manufacturing. Unfortunately, that's because Indiana has lost even more jobs than we have. We have to understand this is not something that is affecting just Wisconsin. This is both a national crisis, and it's a global crisis. So you can't just put Fond du Lac by itself into its own silo and look at it as an isolated incident. You can't look at what's happening in Wisconsin apart from what is happening in the country and in terms of the global trading system itself. And we are the victims in Wisconsin, because we are so heavily a manufacturing state, of fundamentally flawed international trade agreements. We've got to change the rules of international trade or we're going to continue to see this decline in manufacturing, the decline in the production base of this entire country.

Frederica Freyberg:
I want to move along to another topic and that is pending legislation out of Washington called the Employee Free Choice Act which would allow employees to form unions and penalize employers for unfair practices. Wisconsin Manufacturers and Commerce has produced television and radio commercials opposed to that legislation. We are going to take a look at that spot now.  

Woman:
I work hard, and if unions try to organize at my work, I should be free to choose without pressure. The bill in Congress would take away our right to a secret ballot and force workers to reveal their vote. Even worse, union organizers could show up at my home and pressure me into joining a union. And they don't take no for an answer. They call it the Employee Free Choice Act. It’s really the Forced Choice Act. Call Steve Kagen and Herb Kohl. Tell them to stand up to union intimidation. Tell them to vote no on the Employee Free Choice Act.

Frederica Freyberg:
David Newby, what’s your reaction to that?

David Newby:
About 95 percent of the information is incorrect. By the way, I'm disappointed that this is, I apparently looked at my calendar, thought it was Labor Day weekend. Apparently it's Corporate Day weekend. Maybe we can have a Labor Day weekend later this fall. But the information is simply not correct. The Employee Free Choice Act does not eliminate a secret ballot. If they choose rather to have a card sign-up for a petition sign-up whereby a majority, if a majority of workers state and sign that they want a union and the national labor relations board validates those signatures, then they have a union and it's certified. And this is intended to essentially get past the situation we have now, where it's almost impossible to organize in the private sector because of the intense harassment, intimidation and illegal firing of workers who try to organize the union. And we need to change that. We need to give workers a fair chance. We have a situation in this country today where in a non-union workplace, people are afraid to say the word union. They're afraid that if they say the word union, they're going to be fired. This is the United States. We're supposed to have freedom of speech. We're supposed to have the freedom of organization, the freedom to organize a union, and yet the intimidation and harassment against workers who want to stand up for their rights has become so intense that we've got to change that and make it fair again.

Frederica Freyberg:
Let me let you respond to that.

James Buchen:
Well, the current status of the law is that if employees, 50 percent of the employees call for a union election, there's an election held and a secret ballot that neither the union or management knows how people voted and that's what determines whether you have a union. This legislation would take away that right and instead if the union itself wanted a secret ballot, which they'll never call for...

David Newby:
Which they can get with 30 percent rather than 50 percent.

James Buchen:
If the union calls for a secret ballot, you'll have a private election. Otherwise the cards themselves will substitute for that. It's designed to tilt the balance in labor management relations heavily toward the union organizers. And we just think that the system has worked over the years. It allows workers the privacy to make a decision in private and not have either side know how they voted on the decision of whether or not the workplace should be unionized. The kinds of things David is mentioning, intimidation, firing of workers, those are all illegal presently. If there are problems there, that could be worked on. This bill is, this is about a completely different subject. This is about tilting the balance in favor of union organizers and making it more difficult. This entire process could take place without management ever knowing about it.

James Buchen:
We heard your 30-second slick spot, so we'd like to give the last word to David Newby to respond and tie it up.

David Newby:
First of all, currently management has total control over determining how workers decide whether or not they want a union, whether it goes to a secret ballot or whether it's a card sign-up. But, again, the important thing is to eliminate the harassment and intimidation. Second thing is that there is so much illegal activity that takes place on management's part. And if the National Labor Relations part, which enforces our labor law, decides there has been a violation, it usually takes up to three years before that litigation is settled. By that time the workers have been so intimidated that the organizing drive has been smashed by management and essentially, you know, workers don't have a chance because of the level of fear.

Frederica Freyberg:
All right. We need to leave it there. Thank you very much to both of you for joining us.

James Buchen:
Thank you.