Frederica Freyberg:
State budget cuts also include lay-offs of more than 1,000 state employees. Possibly hundreds more, if union workers decide to keep their scheduled 2 percent pay raise. And so furloughs, lay-offs, pay cuts, such are the realities of this budget year and the next. State employees are feeling the pinch of bad economic times. The head of the largest state employee union worries the worst is not over yet. Marty Beil is executive director of AFSCME council 24. Thank you very much for being here.

Marty Beil:
Thank you, Frederica.

Frederica Freyberg:
Tough times for state workers. What is your biggest concern?

Marty Beil:
My biggest concern, our biggest concern is whether or not there is some break in the decline of the revenues. I'm very fearful in August or September when the new revenue reports are in that we could see another $1 billion shortfall, and you know, I don't know. It's like, I just want to deny that that would happen. But the reality is, is that it could. We don't see the economy turning around. I think the governor is a little sensitive to that. But none of us know for sure it's going to happen and I just don't know where the state will come up with another billion dollars in addition to the $7.5 billion that was a shortfall in the last budget.

Frederica Freyberg:
What would that kind of shortfall mean to state workers, state agencies?

Marty Beil:
Well, you know, the state agencies in this budget have been pretty much rung out in terms of any available dollars. And you are seeing that now with DNR cutting back on staff at state parks and actually closing some state parks, closing customer service centers and a lot of agencies are doing that. I would think if another $1 billion shortfall occurred, we would actually see state agencies close up. They would not attempt to run a partial operation but would actually close the doors and we would see, you know, thousands of lay-offs if that occurred. And the taxpayers of the state are the ones obviously hurt from that, because services that we provide, whether it's for the most need the taxpayers, mental health or developmental disability, or the DNR, taxpayers have to go without.

Frederica Freyberg:
And the members refused to rescind the 2 percent pay raise. Why not?

Marty Beil:
Well, we have evaluated it very carefully, spoke to the members and the leadership, and the 2 percent that occurred in June of this year was the final part of the last contract. We knew full well we are going into a contract period here where there will be in the next contract there will be zeros. We knew that there were furloughs. It wasn't, if you give us 2 percent we won't do furloughs, or give us 2 percent we won't do lay-offs. It was all of that. So we made the hard decision that we would retain the 2 percent, keep our base whole, and then deal with the issue of furloughs and lay-offs, knowing full well for the next four years we'll have wage freezes.

Frederica Freyberg:
The governor says if you don't give back the 2 percent, there's going to be even more lay-offs. That's worth the tradeoff?

Marty Beil:
I think even if we gave back the 2 percent, there would be more lay-offs. There is no guarantee there. It wasn't a quid pro quo where, we gave back the 2 percent and they'd guarantee that there would only be 1,000 lay-offs. Whether we gave it back or not, there will be lay-offs and that's the fact of life.

Frederica Freyberg:
And the furlough days, how difficult will it be to implement 16 days over two years?

Marty Beil:
Because the state has so many different operations, from 24-7 institutions to field offices, there is no one-size-fits-all. So, we have been working for the last month or more, five weeks, to try to develop a road map with the office of state employment relations with, here are the components you need to do, now the agencies should try to fit their plan in that, in that road map. And it is difficult, each agency has different quirks and needs, and in a field office, for instance, a clerical worker can call in and say I'm taking a furlough day today and the operations may or, you know, they can do that. And the operations are such that it would give them the possibility. A correctional officer at Waupun Prison couldn't call in and say, ‘I'm taking a furlough day today.’ There are a lot of issues and complications. And this is a difficult situation for state employees. Most employees aren't happy about it, but they understand that's something that needs to happen. They are willing to do that. As long as they are treated fairly and equitably in the process. And
everybody is touched by it.                           

Frederica Freyberg:
I have heard some critics say that if state services can be provided even through the furloughs, maybe we don't need all the workers working.

Marty Beil:
That's the right wing. They yammer about that all the time, and I guess it's about quality and how we provide services. There's no question if you go out there now, even before the budget has been implemented, you can see that there is a real dip in the service levels of people, whether it's at the DMV stations or permitting in DNR, huge amounts of overtime in the institutions because they cannot hire people because of the position freezes. So, I mean, I don't know that you can just go out there and ask somebody on the street to work at Waupun prison or work at central center for disabled, or do the complicated work of the fish biologists for the DNR, it doesn't happen that way.

Frederica Freyberg:
Marty Beil, thanks so much.

Marty Beil:
Thanks, Frederica.